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Killer Wolf
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When you're bound by your own convictions, a discipline can be your addiction.
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What's your New Year's resolution?
I've got four, so in no particular order:
Edit & Release one of my novels
Get in better shape for both aesthetic and health reasons.
Release a completed game that is not resplendent with suck.
Either get back together with (Her Name Here) or find a way to completely excise her from my mind so that I can actually have a normal healthy relationship with someone else for once.
Edit - make that five. I'll go for the sleep during the night thing too, since that happens to be what I am currently NOT doing.
Edit & Release one of my novels
Get in better shape for both aesthetic and health reasons.
Release a completed game that is not resplendent with suck.
Either get back together with (Her Name Here) or find a way to completely excise her from my mind so that I can actually have a normal healthy relationship with someone else for once.
Edit - make that five. I'll go for the sleep during the night thing too, since that happens to be what I am currently NOT doing.
The Customer Is Always Right - Perception Of Designer & Player "Responsibilities" In Amateur & Commercial Video Games
A good example would be a couple of products I got from Wadjet Eye games. I've bought two games from them, one of which was on sale at the time. I tried the free demos and enjoyed both products enough that I felt comfortable putting my money on the table.
The two games were Gemini Rue and The Shivah, by the way.
Based on some of the dev commentary in The Shivah (that I turned on for a third play), I looked up the work of an artist the author mentioned. I downloaded the guy's game, for free, and started to play it.
The art was pretty amazing. It was a point and click game, all the icons were nicely animated. But, there were a couple of sections in the gameplay where it really fell apart for me. I stopped playing it and went back for a second run at Gemini Rue instead.
Was the game that inferior that I cast it aside just for boring me? If I had put down good money, would I have been driven to gut it out and "give it some time" until I started having fun again? I don't know, really.
I think I've mentioned this next example before at some point. When Batman: Rise of Sin Tzu came out, a friend of mine and I bought it day one and dove into the co-op. We got to the final boss late that night, and had a blast through most of the rest of the game, except for a couple sections where the beers from dinner weren't doing our hand/eye coordination any favors.
The last boss sucked. We couldn't figure out how to even damage him. Finally, I thought "They can't be this f_cking stupid, can they?" and built up my combo meter (whatever it was called) so I could unleash my ultimate attack. I used it on Sin Tzu...and took off one tiny sliver of damage. My friend and I looked at each other and said, "F_ck this." Long story short, we traded it in for store credit and got something else.
Even if I pay for something, bad game design is bad game design.
Of course, we were pretty harsh on games back then. We tried renting Legend of A'lon Dar (or something like that) because it was a co-op RPG a friend recommended to us, and I had just pulled him into rpg games via months of loaning him stuff like Final Fantasy Tactics, Final Fantasy X, Breath of Fire 3, and Xenogears. We tried playing it for a little bit. Neither of us were enjoying it at all. I called the friend who suggested it to us, and his answer was, of course, "Stick with it, it gets better."
We stuck it out for another half hour or so, and then promptly drove it right back to blockbuster. Of course, I do kind of shoot my credibility down a bit here, because I believe our back up rental was Red Faction 2, and I spent the rest of the night murdering my friend with a variety of sci-fi weapons before passing out, drunk, on his couch.
Ah, youth.
The two games were Gemini Rue and The Shivah, by the way.
Based on some of the dev commentary in The Shivah (that I turned on for a third play), I looked up the work of an artist the author mentioned. I downloaded the guy's game, for free, and started to play it.
The art was pretty amazing. It was a point and click game, all the icons were nicely animated. But, there were a couple of sections in the gameplay where it really fell apart for me. I stopped playing it and went back for a second run at Gemini Rue instead.
Was the game that inferior that I cast it aside just for boring me? If I had put down good money, would I have been driven to gut it out and "give it some time" until I started having fun again? I don't know, really.
I think I've mentioned this next example before at some point. When Batman: Rise of Sin Tzu came out, a friend of mine and I bought it day one and dove into the co-op. We got to the final boss late that night, and had a blast through most of the rest of the game, except for a couple sections where the beers from dinner weren't doing our hand/eye coordination any favors.
The last boss sucked. We couldn't figure out how to even damage him. Finally, I thought "They can't be this f_cking stupid, can they?" and built up my combo meter (whatever it was called) so I could unleash my ultimate attack. I used it on Sin Tzu...and took off one tiny sliver of damage. My friend and I looked at each other and said, "F_ck this." Long story short, we traded it in for store credit and got something else.
Even if I pay for something, bad game design is bad game design.
Of course, we were pretty harsh on games back then. We tried renting Legend of A'lon Dar (or something like that) because it was a co-op RPG a friend recommended to us, and I had just pulled him into rpg games via months of loaning him stuff like Final Fantasy Tactics, Final Fantasy X, Breath of Fire 3, and Xenogears. We tried playing it for a little bit. Neither of us were enjoying it at all. I called the friend who suggested it to us, and his answer was, of course, "Stick with it, it gets better."
We stuck it out for another half hour or so, and then promptly drove it right back to blockbuster. Of course, I do kind of shoot my credibility down a bit here, because I believe our back up rental was Red Faction 2, and I spent the rest of the night murdering my friend with a variety of sci-fi weapons before passing out, drunk, on his couch.
Ah, youth.
Secret Santa Reviews!
I was a little worried when I saw I won with 1 correct guess. Mainly I was just hoping it wasn't because I was the only jerk to guess myself as a reviewer, but then I saw which one on the list I got right and felt a little better. =)
Gathering data during gameplay. Yes or no?
author=Max McGee
But I made an entire thread about this BS, I don't mean to hijack yours. : )
I bumped it for cross talk.
As for this topic, it has probably just about run its course for now. The consensus I'm getting is that data gathering isn't quite as intrusive as I thought it might seem.
All that is left is for me to experiment with getting my routines to function how I want, resolve auto-naming issues to prevent (or at least reduce the incidence of) different users overwriting existing data anytime the auto-uploader runs (provided it works, reliably) if I go the background/passive collection route, and figure out how best to integrate it with whichever maker's .exe that I end up using.
Oh, and I have to actually make the games for it to go in. I always forget the little details! =)
The Customer Is Always Right - Perception Of Designer & Player "Responsibilities" In Amateur & Commercial Video Games
Bumping as a kind of cross talk between something that came up in my Data Gaterhing, Yes or No topic:
I still don't buy that I should give something I'm NOT enjoying more of a chance, just because it was free. I understand the reasoning behind it, I guess. Since they are not asking anything of me (money wise), I should lavish my time and energy on their product as if I were lapping up mana from heaven.
Maybe that is how it should work, but that has never been the case with me. I don't feel any sense of responsibility to a game that I am playing, unless I am testing for someone or planning a review.
There have been times when I was bored, or even just curious about other games here, that I've gone on binges and downloaded anywhere from five to twelve RMN games in a sitting. I pick whichever one looks like the most fun, or the strangest duck in the pond, and I open it first.
Maybe I have a great time with it, maybe I don't. If it is fun, I keep playing, if not I move onto the next game in the queue. There was one night where I downloaded seven games, tried them all in series, and had them all deleted inside of two and a half hours. I'm not going to mention any names.
If I had bought any of those games, I would probably have given them more of a chance. When I work, I trade my time for money. When I buy a game, I'm trading my money for time again, the time I will spend with the product. I usually won't even BUY a game (at least not for full price) unless I'm pretty sure I'll get a certain number of hours/number of replays out of it. There are exceptions, such as something really innovative that I want to support, or something that just looks too good to pass up.
Every time I play the game, the "cost" decreases. 60 dollars for a four and a half hour game is insane. 60 dollars for a 32 hour game that I've played six times? Dirt cheap, and damn well worth every penny.
In a free game, there is no cost, except my time. If I'm not enjoying the experience, I'm not going to keep investing my time into it. I still think the audience owes nothing to the creator, except perhaps honesty. If I download a game and have either a good or bad experience, I think it is incumbent on me to provide feedback to the creator.
Now, a lot of times I've been about to review a game or post something here, but I check what has already gone up first. If my points have already been made, I'm not going to waste the bandwith to reiterate them just for some Maker Score. Also, I have held my tongue (or rather tied up my typing fingers) to keep from beating something into the ground that the rest of the wrecking crew has already taken a turn at.
Part of my whole approach with the Data Gathering is to be able to just let people PLAY the game whatever way they want, and let the information about their experience help shape the end result. In some ways, I'm trying to lessen the perceived "burden/responsibility" on the audience's behalf. Now they don't even need to think critically about the game in order to provide me with feedback, they can just PLAY it. Or not. It's up to them.
I still don't buy that I should give something I'm NOT enjoying more of a chance, just because it was free. I understand the reasoning behind it, I guess. Since they are not asking anything of me (money wise), I should lavish my time and energy on their product as if I were lapping up mana from heaven.
Maybe that is how it should work, but that has never been the case with me. I don't feel any sense of responsibility to a game that I am playing, unless I am testing for someone or planning a review.
There have been times when I was bored, or even just curious about other games here, that I've gone on binges and downloaded anywhere from five to twelve RMN games in a sitting. I pick whichever one looks like the most fun, or the strangest duck in the pond, and I open it first.
Maybe I have a great time with it, maybe I don't. If it is fun, I keep playing, if not I move onto the next game in the queue. There was one night where I downloaded seven games, tried them all in series, and had them all deleted inside of two and a half hours. I'm not going to mention any names.
If I had bought any of those games, I would probably have given them more of a chance. When I work, I trade my time for money. When I buy a game, I'm trading my money for time again, the time I will spend with the product. I usually won't even BUY a game (at least not for full price) unless I'm pretty sure I'll get a certain number of hours/number of replays out of it. There are exceptions, such as something really innovative that I want to support, or something that just looks too good to pass up.
Every time I play the game, the "cost" decreases. 60 dollars for a four and a half hour game is insane. 60 dollars for a 32 hour game that I've played six times? Dirt cheap, and damn well worth every penny.
In a free game, there is no cost, except my time. If I'm not enjoying the experience, I'm not going to keep investing my time into it. I still think the audience owes nothing to the creator, except perhaps honesty. If I download a game and have either a good or bad experience, I think it is incumbent on me to provide feedback to the creator.
Now, a lot of times I've been about to review a game or post something here, but I check what has already gone up first. If my points have already been made, I'm not going to waste the bandwith to reiterate them just for some Maker Score. Also, I have held my tongue (or rather tied up my typing fingers) to keep from beating something into the ground that the rest of the wrecking crew has already taken a turn at.
Part of my whole approach with the Data Gathering is to be able to just let people PLAY the game whatever way they want, and let the information about their experience help shape the end result. In some ways, I'm trying to lessen the perceived "burden/responsibility" on the audience's behalf. Now they don't even need to think critically about the game in order to provide me with feedback, they can just PLAY it. Or not. It's up to them.
Gathering data during gameplay. Yes or no?
author=Cozzer
As an indie developer, I doubt you could have enough players to get statistically significant informations about something so heavily influenced by so many external issues. °°
Thanks for the vote of confidence! But seriously, I understand that. I'm thinking more along the lines of "If five people test it and three or four of them all throw roughly the same data, then I should probably check that area out to see what is causing people to play it that way."
author=LockeZ
I have an RMXP script that allows you to specify times for automatic checkpoint saves (I have one just before each battle but you could do them anywhere you want) and then loads from the checkpoint upon game over. If you're using RMXP, I can mail this to you. If you're using VX or something else, it's not so useful, but I'm sure similar scripts exist out there for VX.
I'll probably use patched/modded 2k3 or VX (I'm almost certainly going to start in 2k3 first, and then maybe port to VX if/when I get better with it). I have XP, but I never really did much with it. If you wouldn't mind sending it to me anyway, I'd appreciate it. I've been trying to get my head around scripting a little more lately.
author=Max McGee
Why? I mean, from the perspective of a game designer I can see how trying to make your game as fun as possible from the getgo is a good idea...
BUT
As a game PLAYER these are both totally valid statements.
I just don't think it is something a dev should ever fall back on. Nobody is going to make the perfect game, because the definition of perfection will vary from person to person, as emmych said.
It also goes back to that one post I made that you didn't appreciate Kentona quoting in the "Indie Games Getting Attention" thread.
As a player, if I have to have someone tell me to "stick with it, it gets better" to keep me playing a game that I'm not enjoying, perhaps I need to sit them down and explain to them what I'm looking for in a game.
Now, if it is just a voice in the back of my head telling me, "You paid 60 dollars for this, if you give up after forty five minutes, I'm going to beat the living hell out of you with a baseball bat," that is something else. In a free game though, especially considering it would be among a sea of OTHER free games, the normal player doesn't owe my game any of that forced loyalty. If they aren't having fun, the can move onto something else. I just want to know WHAT they aren't enjoying. Taking it in as data also removes the emotion from it. If someone says "This sucks, you suck for making it," that tells me nothing. If I see that the person gave up after they spent ten minutes trying to open a door because I did a bad job of explaining that they had to throw a lever one flight up, that is something I can address.
"Stick with it" CAN be legitimate in the testing phase. "This area is pretty rough, but keep going, the next one is pretty solid and I could use some feedback on the new enemy types it introduces."
If someone isn't enjoying my game, or hits something in it they really don't like, that is something that I would like to know about so I can, possibly, address it... it wastes both my time, and theirs, for me to just say, "No, you were doing it wrong. THIS is how you play the game." That is, pretty much, what I meant with that statement.
author=emmych
Slow cutscenes and fetch quests come later - give me a reason to slog through them; make me love your game first.
A lot of my old projects didn't follow this rule, unfortunately, but it is something I'm working on for future releases!
Gathering data during gameplay. Yes or no?
author=Sauce
Sounds like a pretty cool idea. Also sounds really hard parsing those numbers for usable info. You got that figured out? Could be a lot of work for what could amount to something like "lower hi-potion from 100hp to 75hp."
I have some ideas, but it all really depends on the data I get. If I see that people are taking a long time to locate one objective, I know that I might need to add in some extra hints, via dialog and/or map design. If I see that people are hoarding their healing items instead of using them, that would be an indication to me to make them more common, and also possibly decrease the effect of some of the 'better' items to increase the chance that they get used instead of stockpiled for a rainy day.
I'd have to compare data and try to establish the values for a base line experience first. From there I could start to analyze trends, deviations, tendencies, etc.
Of course none of this would occur in a vacuum. Naturally, I would still want testers to give me their feedback. The difference is that I could see exactly (well, for the elements I'd be capturing data on) how they played the game so I could evaluate what they told me in the context of how they played. "X boss was next to impossible." + <Data shows that the player took a party in for the fight that didn't have a good mix of skills the boss was weak against/Player took a team of strikers in, but no healers, buffers, or debilitators.>
Also, I'm working on a way to capture data that will give me an idea of how long the game is played between saves, along with which area the player is navigating. That way I might be able to tell if an area is frustrating or boring if I see that it took the player six sessions to actually make it through.
I'm actually considering doing away with "game overs", just from the standpoint that capturing data during a loss is of equal (or perhaps greater) importance than capturing for a victory. After losing a battle, the player gets the option to just continue from their last auto-save so that the data from the loss is preserved.
Spoiler alert - I'm also toying with how to implement auto-saves via pointers & the >5000 variable range. They would occur just before each battle (that way I'd have less to have to track & reset), and if the player loses, they get the option to recall straight to the menu/character selection (with a slight xp penalty) or jump right back into the battle like it never happened.
What are you thinking about right now?
I'm seriously considering making a Tom Waits style acappella (well, growl-capella to be honest) rendition of Harry Wincott's The Old Dun Cow.
Graphics and the sorts
Xenosaga was really the first game I was aware of that beat me over the head with cutscenes. It was like they took the approach from the second disc of Xenogears and said, okay, lets do THIS. I remember people joking about "Well, I just beat a boss... so I'm going to go make a sandwich and wash my car, I'll be back in time to catch the important stuff before gameplay starts again."
For a while, it felt like the formula was: Play a little bit of game, get a nice long cutscene to reward you for playing. It felt like the movies were the point, and the gameplay was something tacked on so that it could be marketed as a game instead of an incredibly dense 50 hour anime series. (That is a little unfair, because I did enjoy all the XS games, but this was a really popular description of them.)
Now, I guess it just has to go with story integration. It has been a couple months since I played DE:HR, but I don't remember thinking it was particularly cutscene heavy. Of course, that may just be me, and the particular set of blinders I am augmented with thanks to my adoration of Deus Ex and its children (even the red headed stepchild that is Invisible War). To me, I never had one of those "Oh for f_cks sake, just let me get back to the damn game" moments that I've had with, oh lets say, games in the MGS series.
For a while, it felt like the formula was: Play a little bit of game, get a nice long cutscene to reward you for playing. It felt like the movies were the point, and the gameplay was something tacked on so that it could be marketed as a game instead of an incredibly dense 50 hour anime series. (That is a little unfair, because I did enjoy all the XS games, but this was a really popular description of them.)
Now, I guess it just has to go with story integration. It has been a couple months since I played DE:HR, but I don't remember thinking it was particularly cutscene heavy. Of course, that may just be me, and the particular set of blinders I am augmented with thanks to my adoration of Deus Ex and its children (even the red headed stepchild that is Invisible War). To me, I never had one of those "Oh for f_cks sake, just let me get back to the damn game" moments that I've had with, oh lets say, games in the MGS series.
Games - Tester
Games - Other
